October 25, 2007

Ron Paul Takes Nazi Cash!

Matt, David, and the rest of the folks at have dug up what ought to be a big scandal -- Ron Paul is taking campaign cash from Nazis, including the owner of the biggest neo-Nazi site on the internet (and the current husband of the former Mrs. David Duke).

A investigation has conclusively established that a leading figure in the American neo-Nazi / White-Supremacist movement has provided financial support to Ron Paul’s 2008 Presidential campaign.

The individual in question is Don Black, the founder, owner and operator of Stormfront, a “white power” website that both professional journalists and watch-dog groups have identified as the premier English-language racist/hate-site on the Internet.

Now LST has been raising the issue of links to Paul's website (including a fundraising widget) from Stormfront for some time now, without response from the Paul campaign. Paul has not renounced support from white supremacists like Black and Stormfront, despite his campaign being made aware of the links from the racist site. Furthermore, Paul's association with (and courting of) 9/11 Truthers, rabid anti-Zionists, and militia supporters clearly walks him to the extreme fringe of American politics -- right to the very neighborhood inhabited by the neo-Nazis.

Interestingly enough, Ron Paul supporters commenting at LST are defending the acceptance of white supremacist cash, and arguing that LST is in the wrong for revealing the connection.

Will Ron Paul do the right thing in this case? Or will he keep the cash, thereby verifying that he is the candidate of the freaks, weirdos and nutjobs of the internet?

UPDATE: Hot Air notes another donor -- this one maxed out -- to the Paul campaign. It is 9/11 Truther and militia supporter Alex Jones!

Others commenting include JammieWearingFool, American Pundit

OPEN TRACKBACKING AT Outside the Beltway, Nuke's, Perri Nelson's Website, Right Celebrity, Right Truth, The World According to Carl, Shadowscope, Pirate's Cove, The Pink Flamingo, The Amboy Times, Leaning Straight Up, High Desert Wanderer, Pursuing Holiness, Right Voices, and The Yankee Sailor, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe.

UPDATE: The original post has been taken down since LST has closed. Here is an archival copy of the original post found at free Republic.



Must credit!!!

That means YOU, mainstream media producer/reporter/outlet!


A investigation has conclusively established that a leading figure in the American neo-Nazi / White-Supremacist movement has provided financial support to Ron Paul’s 2008 Presidential campaign.

The individual in question is Don Black, the founder, owner and operator of Stormfront, a “white power” website that both professional journalists and watch-dog groups have identified as the premier English-language racist/hate-site on the Internet.

Previous LST posts have focused on banner “widgets” appearing on the front-page of Stormfront. It is important to emphasize that these are NOT “advertisements” placed on Stormfront BY the Paul campaign, but rather publicly-available graphics that Stormfront’s owner has chosen to place himself, with links directly to Paul’s donation page.

Nevertheless, LST has in the past several weeks raised a series of questions for the Paul campaign; specifically–

  1. Can Paul confirm that the donation widgets appearing on Stormfront are the result of the site owner’s actions, not the campaign’s?
  2. Will Paul take measures to block Stormfront as a referring URL to his own website, so that no future donations can possibly flow into his campaign from a site that serves as the on-line nexus of neo-Nazism?
  3. Will Paul ask his own web-staff to trace past donations that were made by anyone arriving at his campaign’s webpage from Stormfront, so that these contributions can be rejected?
  4. Will Paul explore if there are any legal actions available to try to remove his donation widget from Stormfront, and if so pursue them?
  5. At the very least, will Paul personally state publicly, vigorously and unmistakably that he rejects the support of white supremacists, and that he will not knowingly tolerate their involvement with his campaign in any form or to any degree?’s managing editor Matt Bramanti left multiple messages last week for officials in Paul’s national campaign press office seeking comment. None were returned.

In the interim, a number of grassroots supporters of Paul’s campaign– including many honorable and regular readers of LST– have argued that…

  • It is unfair to hold Paul responsible for receiving political support from racists/neo-Nazis if that support was unsolicited by Paul;
  • Paul hasn’t, in fact, solicited white-supremacist support; AND
  • Paul’s campaign has no practical way of knowing whether or not a specific financial contribution made has come from a neo-Nazi.

These abstract debates are now moot– a contribution to the Paul campaign by a known white-supremacist has been identified.

The evidence is as follows:

  • Black proudly and openly identifies himself as Stormfront’s guiding hand, and publishes a contact address on the Internet– PO Box 6637, West Palm Beach, FL, 33405
  • A search by LST of public databases indicates that there is only one “Don Black” residing in West Palm Beach, Florida, zip code 33405
  • A 7/16/01 USA Today article identifies Black’s wife as being named “Chloe”
  • That same article identifies Chloe as being the ex-wife of close Black associate and former “Grand Wizard” of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke
  • Minutes of a 9/7/07 City of West Palm Beach code-compliance hearing identify “Chloe H. Duke” as owning a residential property located at 203 Lakeland Drive
  • According to Federal Election Commission records, on 9/30/07 the Ron Paul presidential campaign received a $500 contribution from a Mr. Don Black, who lists his address as 203 Lakeland Drive and identifies his occupation as “self-employed/website manager”

In light of these facts, we believe our previously asked questions continue to have merit.

A final note– it is traditional in political campaigns for candidates to return contributions from “toxic” donors once sufficient public scrutiny and outcry has been generated.

The difficulty in this instance is that if Ron Paul returns these funds to Mr. Black, all he will have done is given a neo-Nazi $500 more dollars with which to spread his psychotic bile.

We would therefore like to suggest that the Ron Paul campaign donate Black’s $500 to any of the following worthy recipients–

  • United States Holocaust Memorial Museum ($500 would make Dr. Paul a “sustaining member”)
  • One Family Fund (which works to rebuild the shattered lives of Israeli victims of Arab terror; $500 would make Dr. Paul a “healer”)
  • Aish Ha’Torah (dynamic Jewish educational foundation; Aish donations are set according to funky Kabbalah-based giving levels–$18, $36, $180, etc.–but for $500 Dr. Paul could simultaneously become a “Friend of the Wall” and a “Gate of Wisdom,” which would entitle him to both a Sterling Silver Menorah bookmark with certificate of authenticity from the Israel Museum in Jerusalem, and a Western Wall Images CD with over 500 unique photos of life at the Western Wall– perfect “re-gifting” items for the fast-approaching Hanukkah season)

We try to be helpful.

Matt Bramanti, Managing Editor (Gentile Stooge)
David Benzion, Publisher (Z.O.G. Chapter #1948 President)

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Comments on Ron Paul Takes Nazi Cash!

Giuliani took money from corporations like Goldman Sachs. Should he give that back?

Who cares who associates with Ron Paul? It's not like he's embracing them. Ron Paul is also polling highest with blacks. Clearly his message is extraordinarily racist.

What a silly blog post.

|| Posted by Hotchney, October 25, 2007 07:15 PM ||

I've got no problem with Goldman Sachs -- but I guess you do, given that the name is so Jewish.

And I guess you have no problem with Nazis and white supremacists. Tells us everything there is to say about Ron Paul supporters like you.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 25, 2007 07:20 PM ||

Ha, you fool. Always trying to play the race card. You sound like a liberal. Then again you're probably supporting Giuliani so you are one. I have no problem with Goldman- Sachs. I just don't like voting for candidates who are manipulated by special-interests. Giuliani is knee deep in them. Of course, you don't care about that. Who cares if our politicians are honest. As long as they don't take money from private citizens with racist backrounds.


|| Posted by Hotchney, October 25, 2007 07:28 PM ||

Odd -- I conclude from your support for Ron Paul's keeping donations from a Nazi and your gratuitous reference to a company founded by Jews that you must be a bigot yourself.

You, on the other hand, take my objection to racism and anti-Semitism to be signs that I am a liberal, that I support a particular candidate, and that I don't care about government corruption. On all three points you are wrong.

That is precisely the problem with Ron Paul supporters -- their fact-free view of the world.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 25, 2007 07:35 PM ||

This is getting stupid. How do you propose we go about eliminating problems like white supremacists donating money to candidates? Having all donors pass a background check first? What is to stop a white supremacist from donating to any campaign? I bet some have donated to Romney's campaign, as there is a strong white supremacist streak in the LDS community around Utah and Idaho. I oughta know: I lived there. Somehow though, I don't think that concerns you. Somehow, I think you just *enjoy* attempting to trash Ron Paul's campaign.


Makes me glad I dropped out of politics. Who needs politicians anyway?

|| Posted by Gene, October 25, 2007 07:36 PM ||

Actually, you guys have developed an almost religious faith in Ron Paul. No wonder you treat criticism of the man the same way Muslims treat criticism of Muhammad.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 25, 2007 07:38 PM ||

In other words, you don't have any evidence but are willing to throw out the charge, defaming the man's religion in the process.

Find a white supremacist donor to Romney and I bet he returns it.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 25, 2007 07:44 PM ||

A fact free view of the world? Right.

And the ideas from people like Giuliani to prance around the world nation-building, wasting trillions of dollars we don't have is fact-imbued? I never thought following the constitution was such a bad idea, although liberals like yourself seem to think that it is a bad idea.

|| Posted by Hotchney, October 25, 2007 08:25 PM ||

I'm no liberal, despite your willingness to keep throwing around the charge.

And I'm no Giuliani supporter, despite your insistence that I am.

Like I said -- you live in a fact-free world. And like most of your Ronulan ilk, you insist upon defaming and insulting anyone who does not bow down before the altar of Ron Paul.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 25, 2007 09:10 PM ||

I don't insist you bow down. I do refute your preposterous accusation that Ron Paul supporters live in a fact free world. Some may; most don't.

Who do you support? Or will you not say because you're ashamed of supporting them? Is it tax-hike mike? Or Fred "Uh" Thompson? I had hope for Thompson - until he got into the race. Whew what a dud.

|| Posted by Hotchney, October 25, 2007 10:36 PM ||

Actually, you've refuted nothing. You've yet to offer any proof that I am wrong.

And I've endorsed my candidate on this site more than once -- and the fact that you have no idea who it is constitutes proof that you don't have any facts on your side when you make your assertions.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 26, 2007 03:14 AM ||

Go shill for Ron Paul elsewhere.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, October 26, 2007 03:22 AM ||

Today, a life form on AM radio named Michael Meth-head, Med-head, Dead-head, Medved, whatever, claimed that if I googled Ron Paul and Nazis, that I'd find really disturbing facts which Ron Paul needs to acknowledge, etc. The highest ranked site was from Daily Kos and was some bimbo who correctly claimed that Ron Paul was NOT a Nazi and then went on to make idiotic arguments that his foreign policy views were worse than Rudy's because even though Ron Paul is AGAINST the war, he's against it for the wrong REASONS (WTF??!?!?!? Who GIVES a sh*t??!!!). The second highest ranked site for those two phrases was you. All I can say is that if Michael In-bred believes that Ron Paul is a Nazi because he's actually taken cash from them, then he's really not very bright. He's taken money from Strippers for Ron Paul - does that make this Lutheran ultra-gentleman (who will never go with a woman unaccompanied by witnesses he's so in love with his wife and so old-school) a Stripper or a supporter of such practices themselves as opposed to the RIGHTS of women to engage in such professions? You all are stupid, stupid, stupid.

|| Posted by Robert Edward Johnson, November 1, 2007 08:42 PM ||

All I can say, Robert, is that your comments and your website prove that you are, in fact, a moron.

Interestingly enough, you don't dispute the fact that he takes money from Nazis. You can't. A true "Lutheran ultra-gentleman" would repudiate such money and support.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 1, 2007 08:49 PM ||

The fact is, Ron Paul is not a serious candidate. and the fact that he takes money from NAZI white supremists, is wrong because they are criminals. We are not talking just a regular Joe Blow who happens to know a Nazi, He has taken money from well known....very well known names. Hmmm kind of sounds like Clinton's taking money from Chinese communists! All of the freaks I see waving "google Ron Paul" signs prove that he is associating with the freaks!! can't wait till he is out.

|| Posted by sage, November 2, 2007 07:24 AM ||

Just because a neo-Nazi contributed funds to the Ron Paul campaign doesn't make Ron Paul a neo-Nazi. The neo-Nazis believe very strongly in Jesus Christ. Does this make Jesus a neo-Nazi? I think not.

|| Posted by TruthAndReason, November 4, 2007 08:57 PM ||

You'll notice that I never accused Ron paul of being a neo-Nazi, because i know that he isn't. I instead noted that he is taking money from such folks for his campaign.

But since you raised the question, let's put the question to you: Would Jesus keep campaign donations from a neo-Nazi?

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 5, 2007 04:22 AM ||

What does it matter where money cames from, Little old ladies, Nazis or if it falls out of the sky. Money is money, it all spends the same.

With this mosey Ron Paul can buy media publicity, and get his message out, which you admit is not a Pro-Nazi nor even a Nazi-friendly message.

You say they are criminals, but if that was the case the funds would be wired in from jail cells, to say other wise is to assume guilt without a fair trial, which is unconstitutional.

So long as Nazi are not actively breaking the Law, the constitutions says we must grant them the liberty to stomp around in jackboots and make absurd racial proclamations, they may even Hitler Solute each other and anyone else they feel like.

That is what freedom and liberty means.

If these Neo-Nazis where breaking the law, then Ron Paul would have every reason to turn them in to the police and hand the money over as evidence. However, there is no crime is expressing ones liberty to donate money to any individual or organization one chooses.

If a Nazi organization gives a huge check to the Salvation army, should they use that money to feed the poor, or give it back to the Nazi, who will use it to buy svastikas, and I don't know ropes to lynch minorities, or torches to burn down black churches.

Personally, I think the money is in better hands with Ron Paul, and it would be irresponsible of him to put money back into the hands of racists.

|| Posted by Clocktower, November 15, 2007 01:35 AM ||

Well, Clocktower, thanks for the canned response that in no way responds to what i wrote.

1) I nowhere say that Nazis are criminals.

2) I nowhere say that Ron paul is not pro-Nazi or Nazi-friendly.

3) I nowhere say that they don't have the right to engage in their disgusting displays of ignorance and racism.

4) While Nazis have the right to participate in politics, no candidate is required to accept their money. Ron Paul could choose not to associate with known neo-Nazis. That he chooses to do so calls into question his ethics and morality -- if he has any.

5) I do say that Ron Paul is the candidate of freaks and weirdos, and proves this by courting their support and accepting their money. Your arguments are one more example of the truth of that asertion.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 15, 2007 04:21 AM ||

sage said they are criminals.

Explain how exactly, allowing someone to give you money over the internet is the same as associating with them. Its not like he went out of his way to appeal to Nazis, or that he takes there money as a bribe to support Nazi-agendas in congress or as president.

you fail to address that every dollar a nazi gives to Ron Paul, is one less dollar they can use to support acts of hate.

I admitted that you agreed that Paul is not pro-Nazi. My question is what is wrong with taking money from Nazis, that they would use for evil, and turning that money into good use?

Rather like the old justification for dealing with evil spirits, that the magician is forcing the demons of hell to perform the righteous works of heaven. Transmuting evil into good. (Lead into GOLD)

Are you an inquisitionist who fears Paul is engaging in dibolatry or alchemy, which is a threat to the magical authority of your chosen Pope (candidate)?

You tell me what is weird about people keeping their own money, using it as they want to, learning to support themselves rather than rely on welfare.

What is weird about the ideal that if we stay out of other nations internal affairs (regardless of the potential benefit to us) they will respect us enough to stay out of ours. That forming trade inter-dependence will keep nations people from attacking us because af the mutual benefit.

What is crazy about tying money down to a solid defined value, rather that supporting run away inflation that maken prices raise, then minimum wage goes up, then prices raise again, each time minimum wage goes up, it is less than before and the only makes a difference for about a year before price goes up. Many businesses cant keep giving raises and go under. people lose jobs and get welfare + social security, thin makes more inflation.

Some one has to put an end to it, maybe not Ron Paul, but he is all we have an this time.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 15, 2007 11:23 AM ||

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I don't agree with or associate with racists and/or white supremacists.

And Ron Paul doesn't either.

You say "Ron Paul could choose not to associate with known neo-Nazis. That he chooses to do so calls into question his ethics and morality -- if he has any." He's not associating with neo-Nazis. The only reason you view it that way is because you don't like Ron Paul. He doesn't go to dinner with neo-Nazi's. He doesn't go to fund raisers of theirs. He doesn't go to their parties or celebrate holidays with them.

You also say "I do say that Ron Paul is the candidate of freaks and weirdos, and proves this by courting their support and accepting their money." This is the canned response by people that dislike Ron Paul, big deal. It's old, and it's just using the liberal trick of name calling when you don't have anything intelligent to say. If you want to debate his politics then debate them. But when you use name calling as a tactic against someone you disagree with you just sound like a little brat that isn't getting his way.

You're using the fact that Ron Paul has accepted donations from them that he therefore supports everything they stand for, which is untrue. Or maybe you think due to their donations that he's going to do things for them or something...which again is untrue.

It really doesn't matter how much people against Ron Paul bring up things like this, we believe in HIS message. We don't believe in the message of his donors.

It's the same for the supporters of every other candidate out there. You can bring up negative things about Hillary Clinton for example, but no matter what it is Clinton supporters will still be Clinton supporters.

So keep up the "against Ron Paul" campaign, because it doesn't matter. His supporters are for smaller government, the end of the welfare state, protection of our borders, adherence to the Constitution, and matter who donates money to his campaign.

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 16, 2007 07:07 AM ||

"Would Jesus keep campaign donations from a neo-Nazi?"

So now you're acting as though you know what Jesus would do?

You have no idea what Jesus would do. No one does. That question is irrelevant and ridiculous.

I could say "Yes, he'd keep the money and give it to the poor".

You could say "No, he'd never keep the money! He'd throw it in their faces and damn them to hell!"

Who's right? No one knows.

If you disagree with Ron Paul's politics, let's hear it. What do you disagree with and why?

Most Ron Paul Paranoids like yourself don't debate the issues honestly, you simply call him and his supporters names because you disagree with his political philosophy.

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 16, 2007 07:15 AM ||

Also, there's a good response by the Lone Star Times, one of the many publications that raised this issue. They actually spoke with someone from the Ron Paul campaign about the support of these neo-nazi groups.

I won't go into detail, you can read the article here:

One thing I want to point out is something said by the Ron Paul campaign in regards to Don Black, the leader of a racist group that donated $500 to his campaign:

"Until three days ago, neither Dr. Paul nor anyone else in the campaign had any idea who Don Black was or is. We’ve never met or communicated with him. We did not solicit his support.

It is certainly unfortunate that the campaign’s donation banner is on his site. We’re not rushing to spend a lot of time reading what’s over there, but what you’ve described is certainly repugnant, and completely anathema to everything Dr. Paul stands for."

That's right...they said it's "certainly repugnant, and completely anathema to everything Dr. Paul stands for"

I know some people, however, will never forgive him unless he performs some action (gives the money back, gives it to charity, openly declares he's not a supporter of them, etc). Others will just never forgive him and continue to bash him because they don't like him, but that's expected from the Ron Paul Paranoid group.

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 16, 2007 07:41 AM ||

There is still the unaddressed point that if he were to give the money back to the Nazis it would be no different than if he wrote them a check of his awn and handed it to a Nazi support charity. Either way, its putting money into the hands of Nazis. It doesn't matter if you give Nazis new money, or give them back their own money which they had written off as an expense, they still have money to spend on something evil, that they did not have before.

If Hitler gave me a million dollars I would keep it, if a homeless old woman gave me her last dime, I would give it back. Thats ethics as I see it, take money from evil people, give it to good people who need it.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 16, 2007 11:04 AM ||

As noted at in the original article, the best choice Ron Paul could make is to give it to a Jewish charity.

At this point, though, Ron Paul can just keep the cash as far as i am concern. he has shown himself to be a man with no moral values or standards -- as have his followers here.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 16, 2007 06:11 PM ||

Why should he give it to any kind of charity?

Once the specific $500 left Nazi hands and entered the collective funds of Ron Paul, It lost all association with Nazis, its just money now.

If 300 people each give me a dollar, the history of each dollar is voided, its now just a collective $300, not $300 individual dollar bills with different histories.

If Ron Paul was to give the $500 to a jewish charity, how do we know that those are the exact same dollar bills the Nazis gave him and not some other dollars that came from an honest reputable American.

Is it right to give an honest mans dollars to a charity he does not want to support, just to strike some kind of symbolic gesture to some other dishonest Nazi, that are in no way related to the honest man?

I say any money Ron Paul gets for his campaign is to be used for his campaign, so that he can win the election, and show his anti-Nazi merit in the white house.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 16, 2007 08:14 PM ||

No, Nazi-lovin' Ron Paul can keep his corrupt cash as he goose-steps into oblivion.

After all, he will lose the nomination -- and his House seat.

He's shown he is a man with no morals.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 16, 2007 08:48 PM ||

well being a Nazi is not a crime in America, and that means no matter your personal feelings, you treat Nazis just like anyone else.

That is what America means, it mean love and respect for people even if you don't like what they stand for of choose to do with their time. Fine Nazis hate people, as such they are bad Americans. America does not just mean that legally and politically we allow freedom, it means personally on an individual level we tolerate any behavior up until it breaks the law, that is it causes a direct threat or use of force backed coercion on a specific person.

America is a mentality of the people to accept even blatant anti-liberty attitudes and behaviors from others. As to hate the haters is only more hatred and that is just as unAmerican as to hate in the first place.

By reaching the hand of friendship and mutual brotherhood even to Nazis, Criminals, rapists, Drug dealers, and such ilk, we can offset the pain, fear and humiliation that fuels their misanthropic hatred of some or all of their fellow human beings.

By throwing money back in their faces you only serve to reinforce their belief that they are hated outsiders, who are special and can only gain acceptances by killing their oppressors, or justifiably exploiting other human being.

But when we offer unconditional respect a funny thing happens these Nazis begin to feel like they belong, like others care about them. They begin to feel connected to humanity, they gain self respect, and little by little they learn to respect others. They learn to trust others, even other races, and to give up rationalizing their fear and distrust with racist words. The become ashamed of their shaved heads and svastika tatoos, and like Alex at the end of A Clockwork Orange (Brittish version) they repent their anti-social ways.

And all because people were nice to them, despite their attempts to alienate themselves, with displeasing opinions and behaviors to push others away.

Its called Psychology, read about it

|| Posted by clocktower, November 17, 2007 01:13 AM ||

And that is where you are wrong, clocktower.

While Nazis are not criminals in this country, decent people do not 'treat[them] just like anyone else."

Decent human beings disassociate themselves from them and shun them as unfit companions and supporters.

They refuse to do business with them and do not take their money in trade or as contributions.

They show their abhorrence of their reprehensible ideas and philosophy at every turn -- just as they do with Communists and others who hold to the murderous agenda that the twin evils of the twentieth century attempted to bring about.

That Nazis are just fine with you shows the degree of your moral failings -- and that Ron Paul gladly takes Nazi cash shows he is not a man of right principles.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 17, 2007 03:09 AM ||

Right morals is to love your enemy, its in the bible, read your bible!

|| Posted by clocktower, November 17, 2007 08:55 AM ||

So now I have a RonPauLunatic here who wants to impose biblical morality on us? Seems to me that is quite a contrast from the message of freedom you clowns tell us you are for.

And by the way -- the Bible also tells us to treat those who are persistent in sin as unbelievers. I'd argue Nazism is a pretty big sin.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 17, 2007 11:13 AM ||

I don't actually care what it says in the bible.

Just that the basic Premise Jesus worked under is has proven correct.

That is people do hurtful things because they are themselves hurt "spiritually" which is to say emotionally/psychologically.

Therefore we should seek to heal those who behave in such ways, not provoke them further by justifying their delusions of mistreatment.

Or rather making their delusions of mistreatment and inferiority into self fulfilled prophesies.

Their is nothing a Nazi type wants more than for you to hate him, to spit on him and curse him under your breath. Because this gives him reason to hate you, because he says to him self everyone is against me because I am special, me and by white brothers are elite agents of truth against Jewish lies.

If you throw money back into his face, he will take it as proof you are part of the Jew conspiracy, and then pat himself on the back for outing you as a Race Traitor or some such thing.

Thus all you would do is further his racist beliefs.

Do you think it is a good moral principle to encourage Racists in their racism? I should not think so.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 17, 2007 09:00 PM ||

Gee, clocktower, what a load of claptrap.

If you and Ron Paul want to stand with the Nazis and their wounded psyches, feel free to do so.

Me? I'll stand with the Jews, the blacks, and the other victims of Nazi racism. And if the Nazis claim I'm part of a Jewish conspiracy, I'll simply respond that I am instead a part of a conspiracy of the decent against the indecent.

Too bad you and Ron Paul can't say the same -- and it is good of you two to prove that you are willing to love the Nazis for fun and profit..

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 18, 2007 01:24 AM ||

I guess you never heard of hate the behavior not the person.

You certainly don't understand Adler.

And you seem so concerned about ureal things like making moral points, over real things physical paper money which is not tainted with Nazi cooties or any such actual physical harm.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 18, 2007 02:17 AM ||

Ron Paul has received donations from racist scum neo-Nazis, therefore he must also be racist scum. Ron Paul also receives a lot of support from blacks, which mean he must be black. He is popular on the Web, therefore he must be Tim Berners-Lee. He is popular among students, therefore he must be a college student. Surely some of the people who have donated to his campaign have been homosexuals, homophobes, transvestites, saints, sinners, rich men, poor men, beggar men, and theives, so he must be each of those, as well.

The argument that Ron Paul is somehow defined by a small amount of money (which, by law can be no greater than $2300 per individual) donated to him semi-anonymously (considering the large number of individuals making donations to his campaign) is laughable. Should each candidate be required to run background checks for each check they receive? Is it acceptable to receive donations from felons? From people with bad hygiene? From Scientologists? Bad actors? And whose donations *can* a candidate accept?

Ron Paul received one or more small (compared to a total of $4.3 million) donations from whom he neither knew nor cared to know. All he needed to know was that some anonymous person donated some money to his campaign. Of course he accepted it. To say he should have done otherwise exhibits questionable reasoning skills and a disturbingly skewed view of ethics and morality.

Are you so sure that this site has not received funds from neo-Nazis? How do you know that a neo-Nazi didn't check out this article and click on one of your ads, generating advertising revenue for you from the click? You'd better start backtracing your IP logs so you can know what fraction of a penny you need to donate to charity! Hurry, before you become a skinhead!

|| Posted by webguy, November 18, 2007 05:08 AM ||

Guys, knock yourself out hangin' with the Nazis.

Moral people disassociate themselves from such scum.

That you don't indicates that you are severely lacking in moral values.

No doubt you would celebrate a donation from bin Laden. Oh, that's right, you folks don't think he was behind 9/11.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 18, 2007 04:49 PM ||

If Bin laden gave me money, how does that further his agenda?

Im not going to do Terrorist things. But I will have money it my bank, I can pay my Bills, get a nice car, travel the world, whatever.

I don't care where my money comes from, so long as they don't come knocking for favors.

If the Nazi offer be a bribe, I will not take it. If they leave it on my door step, unsolicited, then its mine.

|| Posted by clocktower , November 18, 2007 07:07 PM ||

Whether or not it would advance his agenda, the mere fact that you would knowingly keep it is indicative of the depth of your moral depravity.

As is Ron Paul's decision to knowingly keep money from these Nazis.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 18, 2007 10:33 PM ||

how does keeping money that a terrorist gives me hurt anyone?

If no one gets hurt, who doesn't want to get hurt, there is nothing immoral.

Taking money from a criminal, is not a criminal act.

If you petition the criminal to steal for you, then accepting that money is being an accomplice.

What should we do, burn any money that has ever touched a Nazi's hands because its got cooties now?

What if I run a grocery store, should I refuse to allow Nazi's to buy bread, on the grounds that I best not touch their poisoned money?

Sure if everyone stopped taking money from known Nazi's that would make it hard for them to keep being Nazi's, but they are not defined as criminals so their is no legal reason to starve and alienate them. In fact refusal to do business with them is probably a crime, Ironically it would be discrimination.

Even if not a crime, it would put them on welfare to the state, and your taxes would go to by them groceries.

Is that what you want?
Either accept money from Nazi's or else the government mafia will steal your tax dollars to buy bread for Nazi's.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 19, 2007 10:45 AM ||

No, what I want is no welfare state -- and for folks to so marginalize the Nazis that they starve in the streets.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 19, 2007 04:49 PM ||

This is America and everyone has a right to live his life as he feels fit, even the liberty to be a complete bastard if he wants, and face no persecution for it.

That is the whole point of America, its a place where freaks, misfits, the eccentric, the puritanical, loons, goons, and bastards can come to be free of social oppression and ridicule.

In America, Nazis are welcome to express their views and be as they want, so long as they dont hurt anyone else. If they want to have a privite Whites only plot of land and teach racist doctrines and instill fear and hatred, they are free to do so. So long as they legally abtain the land, and demonstrate peacefully, they are welcome in America, the land where all misfits co-exist in peace.

It is only if a specific individual performs an act of harm or use of coercive force against another individual, that the government exists to step in and keep the peace.

America is a land of individuals, you are not accused by affiliation with groups. Only Individual acts are judged.

An American is an individual human being first and foremost, and is not ever required to be a patriot of the Government. The Government protects the rights even and I would say especially, of those who would criticize the Governments actions that seek it empower itself rather that protect the absolute liberty of the individual.

America is not an ideal delegated to the government, it mush burn in the hearts of ever man, woman, and child. That Ideal is not obedience to the government, it is not love of the nation. It is the ideal of Absolute total liberty of each individual beholden to no group or authority, but FREE in his own right, which is not granted by power or authority but is an inherent liberty.

This liberty is a mutual liberty that one keeps for oneself only by granting it to others. The instant you persecute a NAZI, you give up a piece of your own liberty.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 19, 2007 08:03 PM ||

They are legally welcome to express their views -- and I am legally permitted to express my abhorrance for them. That includes refusing to associate with them in any manner -- personal, political, religious, and economic.

Furthermore, that means that I am free to attempt to persuade others to do the same.

Unless, of course, you are proposing that ONLY Nazis have rights in your warped version of America.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 19, 2007 08:50 PM ||

Rhymes with Right, you're full of it.

"and that Ron Paul gladly takes Nazi cash shows he is not a man of right principles."

Ron Paul doesn't GLADY TAKE NAZI CASH. His people have said as much. They can't screen all of their donors other than to make sure they're not illegal contributions (unlike Hillary). It would take too much time and effort to do that. And his campaign has said they don't support the Nazi agenda at all.

You're a fool, Rhymes. A complete fool. If Ron Paul can use the money for good purposes then more power to him. You think he supports Nazi philosophy just because they donated to his campaign? If you do then you're a loon and you need mental therapy.

You're just saying the same things over and over thinking if you say it enough times it's going to come true.

You probably didn't like Ron Paul before this news came about anyways, and you'd probably be trash talking him no matter who donated money to his cause. You're pathetic.

And this argument that anyone that supports Ron Paul is a Nazi loving hate monger is hilarious! Sure, we're all a bunch of psychos for following Ron Paul. Keep it coming Rhymes, you're making a lot of us laugh!

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 20, 2007 11:53 AM ||

The economic system is open and free for anyone to participate in it, and by all means we should take it that only dollars participate in it, tho oricin of those dollars in no ones business.

If I am selling a car, the law says that I have to sell it to whoever can pay the price I ask, I can not refuse to sel it based on my opinion of the buyer. A racist can not refuse to do business with a black man, I can't refuse to sell my car to a man who plans to smash it up in a demo derby, and you can't just refuse the sale on the grounds that the buyer is a Nazi.

And donating to a campaign is a sale, the trade is money for policy, in the case of Nazis they probably donate to Paul because they believe the Federal reserve is run by Jews, and they hate that their taxes go to minorities on welfare.

Thus they support Paul's policy, for the wrong reasons, but support it none the less.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 20, 2007 12:27 PM ||

Clocktower you've made many great points that are very logical to an open minded person.

The problem is no matter how much sense you make, no matter how politely you pose your arguments, people such as Rhymes with Right doesn't care. They will continue to bash those that disagree with them and will not acknowledge any points you make.

Rhymes with Right has pretty much ignored the good points others have made and keeps saying the same Ron Paul bashing arguments.

For example, webguy's comments above are very logically made but Rhymes doesn't even discuss them. Many points you made were completely ignored, not addressed at all. Why? Because he knows he can't actually argue with anyone that makes sense when they disagree with him, so he resorts to his childish name calling.

Sean Hannity and Michael Medved use the same tactics to try and make it seem as though they're still ahead of the game no matter what good points are made for the opposing side.

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 20, 2007 03:32 PM ||

yes, he probably wants to claim I am a liberal also. Which I guess he things liberal means anyone who doesn,t think we can end violence by proving ourselves the biggest dog on the block. Or does not believe that anyone is morally justified in claiming authority to control, regulate, or otherwise shape policy.

Funny, I always thought I was more like a Right-wing anarchist, if anything.

Actually I like to think myself a Thelemite.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 20, 2007 04:03 PM ||

Dave -- If Ron Paul does not gladly take Nazi cash, all he would have to do is return the $500 to the guy who runs Stormfront. That he does not puts the lie to any denial by his campaign.

And clocktower -- unless there were a violation of civil rights law, I don't have to sell my car to anyone. For that matter, if I own a business I can run someone off and ban them from the premises if I dislike them, as long as it was not for a prohibited reason under civil rights law.

And I don't think you guys are liberals -- I think you are Nazi-lovin' pussies.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 20, 2007 07:39 PM ||

And guys, the reason I don't get into the "good use" argument is that it is irrelevant. The source of the cash itself is the problem, not the great purpose it will be used for.

If the source of the money is tainted, it does not matter what you do with it. Just as a pro-chastity group does not take money from teh local pimp, a pro-liberty candidate should not be taking money from a Nazi.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 20, 2007 09:25 PM ||

"Dave -- If Ron Paul does not gladly take Nazi cash, all he would have to do is return the $500 to the guy who runs Stormfront. That he does not puts the lie to any denial by his campaign."

Wrong again Rhymes, which isn't surprising since most of your arguments are idiotic. Your opinion is Ron Paul gladly takes Nazi cash since he hasn't done something YOU think is right with the donation.

He didn't request money from anyone in particular, especially Nazi type people. You keep ignoring that issue altogether.

Also, in your twisted mind of illogical thoughts, if Ron Paul ends up giving the money back would it even change your mind on this issue? No, I thought not. You're just a bag of hot air.

"And I don't think you guys are liberals -- I think you are Nazi-lovin' pussies."

You're hilarious! Keep 'em coming Rhymes. You keep showing what a complete ass you are. If we disagree with you on this issue we must be "Nazi-lovin' pussies". That is a perfectly logical argument. You got us there. You win!

|| Posted by Liberty Dave, November 21, 2007 06:27 AM ||

No, I will retract my comments about Ron Paul and the Nazi connection if he refunds the money to Stormfront's owner or donates it to a legitimate charity, demands that links to his campaign website be removed from Stormfront's website, and in the future return other extremist cash he has received. I still won't support Ron Paul, but it would prove he is walking the walk not just talking the talk about rejecting such extremists -- sort of like he does so-called special interest money.

And given your defense of Nazis and their right to have their money accepted by poor, defenseless (principleless is more like it) Ron Paul, I stand by my statement that you are Nazi-lovin' pussies. The ONLY folks you seem to think have rights in any of this are the Nazis.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 21, 2007 09:31 AM ||

If the Nazis gave Ron Paul that money in hopes that he would use it to get rid of the Federal Reserve system, and that is what Ron Paul plans to do with the money he gets for his campaign. Then why should he give back legitimate contributions to the cause he is trying to achieve?

Just because a guy is a Nazi, does that mean everything he does is evil? If a Nazi dropped in a dollar to a charity to help cure Cancer, should that Charity dig through every jar they but aut and return all Nazi dollars?

On what grounds, can a Nazi dollar not help fight cancer the way a someone else's dollar can?
Must we assume that the Nazi didn't really want to cure cancel because he is evil and wants people to die of cancer?

Of I know it means the Cancer Charity is a fraud that really supports only supports white power, because Nazis are evil tight wads who only give money to hate organizations.

It can not possibly be the case that a cure for cancer is a mutually shared goal that both Nazis and minorities have in common.

I mean their is no way that Ron Paul and Nazis could have a shared goal, unless that goal is hate oriented, right?

|| Posted by clocktower, November 21, 2007 03:01 PM ||

Ron Paul is not the cure for cancer, noris he a charity.

Ron Paul is a political candidate, who can and should be judged by those with whom he associates by taking their money.

Ron Paul takes Nazi cash -- ergo anything he has to say is irrelevant because of the taint of taking that cash.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 21, 2007 03:38 PM ||

Ron Paul is a candidate who accepts donations from people who like what he wants to do as president. Some people want out of the war, so they give him money, some people what to end medicare so they donate money, some people don't like the Federal Reserve. Some people just want to get publicity for supporting an underdog.

The Nazi contribution is no different, they support something in his platform, whatever it is, its their money to use as they please. Its not up to Ron Paul to figure out or to care where his money comes from or what the motive for the donation might be.

All he needs do in take the money and use it to win. If the Mafia donates millions of dollars, then he can use that to win, so what if they got the money illegally from extortion. Ron Paul has it now, and once president he can deal with putting an end to extortion. Giving it back doesn't help stop the Mafia.

How does giving maney back to racists end racism? it doesn't but a Ron Paul presidency will!

|| Posted by clocktower, November 21, 2007 04:22 PM ||

Its not up to Ron Paul to figure out or to care where his money comes from

Gee -- that sounds just like a line out of the Hillary Clinton playbook.

Face it -- Ron Paul has no moral scruples against knowingly taking money from Nazis and other racist scum. What's more, he, his campaign, and his supporters all argue that taking money from Nazis and other racists is just fine.

In the end, we can only draw the conclusion that you folks like being associated with Nazis because you like some of their ideas.

The one thing you folks don't like is being judged by the company you keep.

Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas -- lay down with Nazis, get up with swastikas.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 21, 2007 05:07 PM ||

If both Ron Paul and the Nazis want to get rid of the Fed, then why should he not accept their money.

I mean the other candidates take money from the religious right, even though I'm sure none of them want to support the Fowell-Robertson agenda, that would make the US a theocracy.

Maybe when they denounce Pat Robertson, Paul will give back the funds.

Notice I never said they should give back the money, just denounce his agenda.

|| Posted by clocktower, November 21, 2007 05:34 PM ||

1) There is no agenda for theocracy in this country. One more lie from the RonPauLunatics!

2) That you can't tell the difference between Pat Robertson and Hitler tells me a lot about you and your candidate.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 21, 2007 05:44 PM ||

Oh, and clocktower -- since you seem to be from the Belleville are, might I suggest you go have a pizza and a beer at D.S. Vespers? It is one of the many things I miss from my old stomping grounds -- perhaps the thing I most miss.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 21, 2007 05:46 PM ||

Look rhymes with right, nobody but you is buying into your bullshit and asinine logic, so stfu and have a good day. Look if you want to vote for a pro big government candidate thats you own business, but some people dont buy into your bullshit pro welfare state. Anybody who disagrees with you is a nazi loving pussy?, sounds like your the real nazi to me. But when you cant debate ron paul on the issues I guess smear is the only option. have fun voting for flip flopper romney or giuliana. they will say anything to get your vote, that should be right up your alley.

|| Posted by brian, November 29, 2007 04:02 AM ||

No -- candidates who take money from Nazis and those who support their doing so are Nazi-loving pussies, Brian. Glad to see you fall into that category, as witnessed by your pro-liberty demand that I "stfu" because I espouse a position you disagree with. I suppose that if i don't, you and the rest of the RonPauLunatics will put on your best brown shirts and come beat me into submission, right?

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 29, 2007 04:08 AM ||

Nope we will just vote ron paul into the whitehouse, and then shove the freedom and tax dollars youll save down your throat. But honestly who do you support?

|| Posted by brian, November 29, 2007 07:23 AM ||

And is it me or is it ironic a white supremacists last name is black? And let's be honest we know ron paul isnt racist, he probably didnt even know the money he was taking was from nazis, and it wasnt much at all. $500? he made 4.3 million in one day, his site probably gets a lot of donations . Im not gonna sit here and argue he shouldnt give it back, but dont sit there and argue he's a nazi if he doesnt. It was money from an individual who happens to be a nazi, not a nazi group. and alex jones donated? who gives a fuck? anybody can! I think a rapist or pedophile or murderer is worse than a nazi who doesnt break laws. If any bad person has ever donated to any cause, should it always be given back?

The only reason I could see somebody getting mad over this, is you say "well ron paul took money from nazis so maybe the nazis were trying to buy him off to support their views." But we know he doesnt support their views and wouldnt for any amount of cash, ergo it doesnt matter. We know they donated because ron paul will speak against the fed, but for a different reason than nazis.

You say he should give it to a jewish charity, would a jewish charity accept nazi money?

|| Posted by brian, November 29, 2007 08:00 AM ||

Brian -- I don't argue that Ron Paul is a Nazi -- but he is either a Nazi-loving pussy or otherwise an individual of no character if he knowingly keeps the cash from such a source. You are judged in such a case by the company you keep.

And I suggest that such a charity would take the money, just as they have taken items looted by the Nazis when no rightful heir could be found. And indeed, such a donation would thoroughly repudiate the Nazi agenda in a way that the campaign keeping it.

As for who I support, I suggest you read my site and find out.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 29, 2007 07:09 PM ||

I think it's more that he believes in freedom so much, that he thinks anybody and everybody has a right to think whatever they want, no matter how batshit crazy it is, as long as they dont break the law. and you say you dont argue that he's a nazi? but he's a nazi lover? you know who loves nazis? only fucking nazis. This man has no character? He is the only politician whos not a complete bullshit flip flopper who would say and do anything to please you and get your vote.At least the only one running for president. He is a doctor who worked for $3 an hour at a charity hospital, delivering babies of any race or color. How many lives have u saved? He was a doc during viet nam and has devoted so much of his life to helping people, what the hell have u done? start a blog? but he has no character? This man has more character in his pinky than you or me have in our whole body. Have u read any of his writings, or heard him talk about race? To say he is a nazi sypathzer is to be blind to anything he's ever said.
Like you said alex jones donated, does it mean he thinks 9/11 was done by the government? no, no matter how many people like you to try to make it out like he does.~ So an individual who is a nazi donated, does it make him a nazi sypathyer>? no. I could see if it was a nazi group but it was an individual citizen whos racist, and as much as it might piss us off, they have the same right to donate or not donate to ron paul as anyone. And it's really not fair to take somebodys money for one reason, and give it to a cause they dont believe in at all.
Look I know you dont want ron paul to win, hence your for the status quo, but enough americans are sick of bullshit we cant vote for anybody but ron paul.

|| Posted by brian, November 29, 2007 08:55 PM ||

I know all about Ron Paul -- I live 2 miles from his congressional district.

And I'm sorry -- anyone who does not reject money from certain sources (Nazis, Kluxers, Islamists, and Communists) has no character. In this case, Ron Paul has put cash (and such a piddling amount of cash) before decency and principle. As such, he is unfit for any office -- and i am working to make sure he has no office 13 months from now, in any branch of government.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 29, 2007 10:20 PM ||

We must live close together then. Myabe it's that his principles are in fact too strong, because nazis have the right to hate anybody. But since you know all about ron paul, but call him a nazi sympathizer you're obviously just a delusional liar, but that's your right, and you can hate ron paul as much as you want, but he is far and away better than any of those political hacks he's on stage with. I dont defend nazi views, i defend their right to have any view they want.

heres pauls stance on racism, not exactly a nazis wet dream.


A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.

The collectivist mindset is at the heart of racism.

Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry. Bigotry at its essence is a problem of the heart, and we cannot change people's hearts by passing more laws and regulations.

It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

In a free society, every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.

|| Posted by brian, November 29, 2007 11:12 PM ||

I defend he right of Nazis to hate whoever they wish, too.

I also expect those seeking public office to reject campaign donations from known followers of such malign philosophies.

Those who don't do so can only be presumed to support the hatred or lack the morality and decency to oppose them with deeds as well as words.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, November 30, 2007 05:35 AM ||

Or maybe he supports peoples right to think whatever they want.

|| Posted by brian, November 30, 2007 10:39 PM ||

He's so supportive of the right of people to think what they want that he doesn't support his own right to disassociate himself from those whose malign ideologies include explicit calls for genocide? I don't think so.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, December 1, 2007 09:00 AM ||

First of all, if you were a Neo-Nazi, which candidate would you endorse? Neo-Nazis, militia crazies, and the KKK are generally anti-government. They hear Ron Paul being the only candidate openly expressing anti-government views, so of course they endorse him. It makes perfect sense. Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber would probably be strong Ron Paul supporters.

The important point is, should this reflect badly on Ron Paul?

Well, consider this:

Many Neo-Nazi and KKK members strongly claim to endorse Jesus as their spiritual guide. So have many criminals, murderers, and child molesters.

Does this reflect badly on Jesus by association? Does this fact bring into question Jesus' teachings, character, integrity, or values?

Of course not.

Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

What if it is a great thing that Ron Paul's campaign is draining extremist group's funds of cash that would be otherwise used to hurt others? I hope he is successful in bankrupting the KKK and Neo-Nazis by this most devious method!

In other words, why should they return the cash, rather than keep it, and put it towards efforts to enforce human rights and further the cause of freedom from race or religion-based oppression? Wouldn't the money be better put to use in this way?

|| Posted by A Reader, December 3, 2007 03:16 AM ||

Hence my suggestion that he give the money where it will do exactly that, eliminating the taint of taking their cash while devoting it to a positive cause antithetical to theirs.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, December 3, 2007 04:31 AM ||

What's ridiculous is that Ron Paul has raised so much moolah. I didn't know Nazis had so much money. It's not helping in the polls, however. He's stuck at 5%.

|| Posted by Damail, December 18, 2007 08:34 PM ||

That is the absurdity of his refusal to return the tainted cash -- he clearly doesn't need it.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, December 19, 2007 04:39 AM ||

Ron Paul has recieved millions in small donations from European-Americans who don't care whether or not Usurael gets "wiped of the map", or whether or not we are a "diverse nation".

Neither "diversity", nor allegiance to foriegn, especially non-Christian lands are Constitutional.

|| Posted by AntiZionismIStheOnlyRightism, December 20, 2007 01:56 PM ||

Thank you for demonstating the true nature of Ron Paul supporters, and the sort of people embraced by the candidate when he refuses to return this piddling little donation.

|| Posted by Rhymes With Right, December 20, 2007 05:31 PM ||

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